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Post by dead on Dec 13, 2006 22:51:57 GMT -5
They threw him off the battleship.
From what I hear, Sonic actually seems to get the short end of the stick. Between escort missions, mach speed, and last story, he's actually the least played hedgehog in the game. (Shadow had better combat, you play as him more often, and his gimmick stages allowed you to drop the gimmick if you wanted most of the time, plus Super Shadow also gets better moves)
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Post by Kulock on Dec 13, 2006 23:00:50 GMT -5
Shadow's is better, but more same-y. It's like they somehow polished things between SA2, Heroes, and his game, which is good, but not anything too progressive. (If they're going to give enemies lifebars, I do like his Homing Attack melee, though.) Sonic's has more new ideas and setup, but his levels and mechanics need more polish. Why does Shadow's Light Dash function so much better than Sonic's? If one character should've had a more sensitive Light Dash than the other, shouldn't it have BEEN Sonic, since he's the most speed-oriented? It's that sort of thing.
Don't knock the "escort missions" out, you're pretty much still playing Sonic, you just don't have access to your gems and bounce attack, in exchange for a semi-invincible shield move. Mach Speed's a jury-rigged Sonic. Could've been fun if they weren't so nasty about it, and had let you have more maneuverability. (Here's a thought, a rolling move so you can smash through most things that would otherwise hurt you. I've just gotten rid of at least 30-40% of the problems with it. YAY.)
And don't include "Last Story", that's not his episode anyway, and that's a plot thing.
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 13, 2006 23:51:32 GMT -5
I've determined that Shadow is more fun to play as simply because he works better than Sonic. For Shadow, his vehicles are optional roughly 50%-60% of the time you play as him, and often times they give you one of Sonic's more scripted sections (such as snowboarding or certain mach speed sections), hand you a vehicle and go, "Eh, do whatever you want."
White Acropolis is approximately 70% more fun when you can do the entire introduction sequence on foot instead of on that stupid snowboard. Chasing the train in Radical Train is cool because on the motorcycle you're actually traveling at a more acceptable speed and can actually slow down if need be.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 13, 2006 23:59:44 GMT -5
I was trying to S-Rank the last stage that I can access (EotW), pretty much played perfectly (or close enough) through the segments up until Amy's, then at a certain point got hit by an exploding box chucked at me, which hurt me, and while I was hurt, a gravity well sucked me up and killed me before I had a chance. So much for any score I'd earned in the previous five segments, back to 0 it went.
Amusingly (and I mean that sarcastically), next life I got tagged almost the exact same way, but survived by chance. They SET IT UP to be like that.
Really, I'm done defending the game for the night. There is just too much frustration. This game would be so much better if it was even just a cakewalk in comparison. And I can think of so many ways to scale it back, too. Why couldn't the developers?
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 14, 2006 18:16:13 GMT -5
And what is probably the final review for Sonic is in. I just got my EGM today:
Sonic the Hedgehog Don't call it a comeback
The Good: Sonic's action stages, diverse soundtrack. The Bad: Sonic's crappy friends, floaty control, awful camera, multiplayer, load times. Wait for it: Sonic & The Secret Rings (Wii)
Shane: Sonic's 15th birthday bash has turned out to be more of a bust. Despite Sega's triumphant claims that this 3D Sonic update would right the wrongs of the last few efforts (Sonic Heroes, Shadow the Hedgehog) this eponymous next-gen offering actually exacerbates most of those games' more obnoxious failings. Here, Sonic still shares the spotlight with a cavalcade of chirpy critters (several of whom control terribly), hams it up in laughable, over-long cutscenes, and plummets off edges to his doom due to slippery controls and horrendous camera angles. Yup, sounds like a modern Sonic game all right. It's a shame, because a few well-designed stages, such as Radical Train, rekindle the magic of Sonic Adventure (DC). And since you can opt out of playing as Shadow and Silver, the main game feels far more focused than recent efforts. The developers have burried a good Sonic game in here, but only the most patient gamers will actually discover it.
Milkman: Though it doesn't happen too often, I totally agree with Shane. With each new Sonic game it releases, Sega moves closer to assassinating the very character that once distinguished the company. Ironically, despite trying to expose Sonic to a broader audience, Sonic Team has now managed to render his next-gen game almost completely unplayable. Since when does breakneck speed combined with a completely unhinged camera equal playability? It doesn't, and for the first time in history, hardcore gamers and casual consumers alike will find keeping Sonic on track a near impossiblity.
Jared: Perhaps in response to how our complaints about how broken the 3D Sonic games have been, Sonic the Hedgehog features a few on-rails segments. The only input required from the player: left, right, or jump. But thanks to a horrible camera, even these events control terribly. I could've delt with the much lauded adventure elements, subpar graphics - even that clown Shadow - but the bottom line is that this feels more like some hack job created by some Sega interns as opposed to a game from a competant development studio.
The Verdicts Shane: 5.5 (Average) Milkman: 3.0 (Bad) Jared: 3.5 (Bad)
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Post by SonKnuck on Dec 14, 2006 19:07:02 GMT -5
Uh.. playing with your friends is bad now?
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Post by Joshi on Dec 14, 2006 19:09:16 GMT -5
No, but that doesn't mean the multipler mode can't be terrible.
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Post by Optimus Prime on Dec 14, 2006 19:41:56 GMT -5
Oh god, the multiplayer in Shadow was unbearable... like not being able see =D.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 14, 2006 21:44:39 GMT -5
Radical Train's one of the worst levels in the game, particularly as Sonic. (As Shadow and Silver it's far more tolerable, but even then there's some confusing and annoying points, and a LOT of pointless pits.) So I don't know where he's getting that from.
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 14, 2006 22:10:12 GMT -5
I dunno. I dug Radical Train. The Mach Speed section sucks (as they all do), but the level itself is pretty okay and has a unique gimmick.
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Post by Andrusi on Dec 14, 2006 22:28:58 GMT -5
All I know is Radical Train has awesome background music.
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 14, 2006 22:40:32 GMT -5
Andy: As Sonic, Radical Train pits you in a race against "the clock" (though there is no countdown shown). Plot free spoilers follow:
Sonic is chasing Eggman's train, but when Sonic arrives, Eggman has set a passenger train on a collision course with explosives. Sonic must deal with the explosives before progressing on to chasing Eggman.
The Passenger train thankfully moves relatively slowly. You have to rush through the level and trigger three detonator switches - the idea is to detonate the explosives before the passenger train runs into them. Generally the switches are in plain view, but getting to them before the train explodes is not always so easy as there are quite a few enemies and obstacles standing in your way. It's not hard to get there in time, but you can't really go too slow, either.
Once you save the other train, Sonic goes to a Mach Speed section to chase Eggman's train. It sucks. At first you have to dodge other trains as they criss-cross on the tracks and then you catch up to Eggman's train and have to dodge debris as the rear cars all explode, one-by-one, until all that remains is Eggman's locomotive.
Shadow's is similar - but he's a little ways ahead of Sonic. Shadow has to use the same switches Sonic eventually uses - but Shadow uses them to raise barriers to stop Eggman's progress. While Eggman is stopped, Shadow attacks Eggman's locomotive in an effort to destroy it before it gets too far.
Shadow plays Sonic's mach speed section on a motorcycle. Shadow must shoot Eggman's train down before it escapes.
Silver doesn't bother with any of that and just plays the stage relatively normally.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 14, 2006 23:14:56 GMT -5
It obviously got a lot of customization for Silver: All the assorted crud he can pick up right at the beginning for example is a level of detail some of the other levels don't have at all. (Shovels, fence pieces, mine carts, et cetera.)
I guess I was a little harsh, and I like the weighted lifts, but the train's keyed as going too fast for Sonic, IIRC, and it is a LOT of pits. There's also a bit where they awkwardly force the bounce move to be used.
And the Mach Speed's just rough.
By the way, did you know that you can take too long as Tails to hit that switch at Wave Ocean, which triggers a cinema (starting way too early) of Sonic being carried outside and eventually dying once he can't be seen? That's one thing that's bugged me about this game, all the subtle "timed" things.
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ila
Junior Member
Okay?
Posts: 126
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Post by ila on Dec 15, 2006 4:42:26 GMT -5
So from the sounds of that stage I get the impression of moder day terrorism.
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diablohead
Active Member
Sequential Illustrator ಠ_ಠ
Posts: 249
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Post by diablohead on Dec 15, 2006 6:11:11 GMT -5
Why have you guys not burned/traded in this pile of shit yet.
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Post by leviathan on Dec 15, 2006 10:49:15 GMT -5
Is this game seriously not even worth playing? I had been looking forward to it for so long, but I see how even the most hardcore of you vastly dislike the game (or is that even an understatement?).
I can't understand how Wave Ocean can look so awesome in a trailer, and yet not be any good in the game. Is the game not even worth trying?
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 15, 2006 11:08:08 GMT -5
Because you aren't playing it, that's why. Yeah, it looks fun when the video carefully avoids showing all the bad stuff. Like the controls. You have no concept of what Sonic controls like by looking at a video.
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Epon
Active Member
Posts: 402
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Post by Epon on Dec 15, 2006 13:55:23 GMT -5
I went to Gamestop and they only wanted 22 bucks for this game. I'm pretty pissed.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 15, 2006 21:48:17 GMT -5
I'm just going to keep going until I've gotten the thing totally completed, I'm a masochist like that I guess. I'm slowly getting there, but some of the rankings are just crazy, like I don't know how I'm going to do some of Sonic's. Especially when I can get through a High Speed stage, but die because a rogue car tire bounced in the way. (And considering how much stuff is randomly flying about in that stage.)
Oddly enough, if you die close enough to the goal ring, if it carries you far enough while you're dying in a High Speed stage, you'll still make it through.
And here's the basic thing: Sonic's game is rough and unpolished. The PS3 release MAY be better, or they MAY patch the 360 game. Neither are guarantees at the moment, though. But I will say that Silver is fun to mess around with at first, Shadow's game is actually... quite playable and decent (it's like... he has the non-broken bits of Sonic's game, a little slower, more useful melee abilities, vehicles that are often optional but not completely unpleasant to use)... one way to put it is that assuming I'm playing well, I can pretty much reliably S-Rank a Shadow stage. I can't say the same for Sonic or Silver. That means I can get through the level without dying, with enough score.
His Amigo characters are Rouge, who plays like something between Tails and Knuckles, but a lot better (like, she can use bombs during a jump, something Tails can't do, not to mention her bombs don't look like friggin' RINGS...), and Omega, who plays pretty uniquely for the game. No crippled Amy, no janky Knuckles, no ring-bombing Tails...
So I guess that's the big factor for you. Will you be OK with about one third of the game being pretty decent, at least comparable to SA2, knowing that the other 2/3rds, even the name sake character, have moments of cleverness buried in frustrating glitchy parts? I'm really not kidding. It's not like you CAN'T play through Sonic or Silver's game well and look OK, but that's after loads of experimentation and goof-ups, and still you're often likely to get hit by SOMETHING along the way, something that resets your score back to 0 for the level, screwing over your chances of anything above a B...
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Post by leviathan on Dec 15, 2006 22:05:50 GMT -5
I haven't even played the game yet (actually wait, I did play through the demo over and over again) and I'm apprehensive about getting it.
All I wanted was a 7/10 game. I don't care what they did with the game as long as Sonic had ten zones to blast through, similar to SA2. It has been 5 years since I've flew through a stage as Sonic, so I really, really wanted this game to be good.
What is the game like compared to the demo? Everyone on the Internet disliked the demo, and yet I found playing through Kingdom Valley actually fun. I was expecting SA2 (with the camera, and controls) so the issues weren't a surprise for me.
Are Sonic's stages like the demo, or not as playable?
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