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Post by 突貫 (Tokkan) on Dec 20, 2006 22:25:10 GMT -5
It says he loves peaceful worlds, hates Iblis and his abilities are "super-powered". That's nice. He's also 14, which is the same age as Jet the Hawk and Blaze the Cat.
Unlike Blaze, his profile DOESN'T contradict Sonic 2k6. So now it's just weird.
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Post by Night the SR on Dec 20, 2006 22:51:22 GMT -5
Maybe there are two Blazes?
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Post by Kulock on Dec 21, 2006 5:54:27 GMT -5
The whole Blaze thing seems confusing. And finally, a topic where I can potentially TALK about it!
[SPOILERS]
Everyone seems convinced that she "went to another dimension" because that's what she suggested Silver do: Chaos Control her to another dimension. He refuses, but the way she fades away, I got the impression she died instead. (This also meshes with traditional cinema devices: the time traveler that thinks that in the end, it's OK to kill one person in the past to save countless thousands in the future usually ends up having to sacrifice themself to do that. Even though they were doing this in the future, not the past where it'd be most effective.)
People point to the idea that she lost her memory (because of the time erasure, like Silver supposedly does), and took up life in an alternate dimension (with Eggman Nega and ilk), feeling cursed by Iblis' flames within her. So Sonic Rush happened after Sonic 2k6? (I'd say "or not at all", but the bios confuse things terribly.)
Confusing things even further was the fact that she seemed to hint at some familiarity with Sonic somehow ("A blue hedgehog..."), but not enough to be anything specific, and it could in fact just be confusion or wonder at the strange idea. She actually sees Sonic in person _once_ (but doesn't hear him referred to by name, I think), but doesn't speak a word to him.
Now, let's confuse things further. For some reason (probably so they could shoehorn in Flame Core), Blaze and Silver go BACK to the future and fight Iblis there, even though the "Flames of Disaster" should've already been averted. So they do it, Blaze sacrifices herself however you interpret it. Then in Final Story, Sonic is teh die, somehow talk all switches to being about Solaris (I think he's the counterbalance to Iblis, but he's still crazy-go-nuts), they all get sucked into a dimension "End of the World" where everyone's there, except Blaze, who's not mentioned and probably off in another dimension or dead. So they all employ the Real Super Power of Teamwork to find the Chaos Emerald, Sonic am life, they go Uber and hit the enemy really hard, they do it again. Sonic then figures out with Elise that to stop it all from happening, they need to stop the flame from existing before it all could start. Back in time, together, they blow it out. Everything fades back to "current time" just as the game started, except no interaction by Eggman. There is a visit by Sonic, though, and she feels something vaguely familiar about him, referring to him as "the wind" (when he's constantly called "The Blue Wind" by Solleanna people because of the first thing he did when he showed up originally). So there's a lingering... something, but that's it. Seemingly no Flames of Disaster, no Solaris, nothing.
SO WHAT THE HELL HAPPENS TO THE FUTURE? Why is Silver without memory and looking for Blaze in Sonic Rivals (as I've heard) when she should've NEVER HAD TO SACRIFICE HERSELF? Or do the Flames still show up when Elise eventually dies and the future's screwed anyway, right up to the point where Blaze and Silver repeat their final battle with Iblis? Is this like Terminator 3, "You could not stop Judgement Day, you only delayed it"?
Let's confuse things further: the achievements for the game talk about "unlocking the complete ending", I think by S-Ranking Final Episode. (I just made several attempts tonight, I'm really close, but I generally die in End of the World somewhere between Silver, Amy, and Shadow's segments, which resets my score and kills my chances, getting a B at best. Solaris is already taken care of.) Is that achievement text right? Is there MORE to the ending? Will I see it if I S-Rank through the Trial Mode option, or do I need to S-Rank in the actual EPISODE? Or is it just random text they wrote to make the descriptions more interesting?
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Post by GagaMan on Dec 21, 2006 7:53:55 GMT -5
14? That'd explain his whiny, annoying voice.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 21, 2006 10:48:35 GMT -5
Just S-Ranked the level... but it was in Trial Mode. And I don't put it past the game to have me "miss" something because I didn't do it in the right place. I didn't see anything in the Movie Room (Extras section). I played back through the actual episode... unfortunately just A-Ranked End of the World (since I goofed up on Shadow, but I'm a lot better off now because I worked out a trick for Amy's part), did S Rank the Solaris Boss fight... didn't see anything new. Checked my achievement, it just mentions me S-Ranking the Episode now.
It's possible I'll only see it if I double-S-Rank in the actual episode (Solaris is a joke to S-Rank once you know the order of the first part and how to abuse the second), and I don't have all ten Silver medals yet, but hopes for anything further are growing thin.
Couple things I goofed up on: Solaris is apparently Mephiles and Iblis joined? (Why the two together make "The Flames of Hope" I don't know.) I'm not sure when they figure out the name of it, they just start using it. (Maybe when Shadow and Silver time traveled back, they heard it.) I guess the Flames thing would've happened anyway because of Mephiles killing Sonic, but Elise blowing out the flame (after the Super three beat Solaris down enough to reveal the core) is supposed to completely remove the events from ever happening. And there's still some vague familiarity between her and Sonic, but it's just vague, and she's not even the one who refers to him as "the wind."
Also, it's pretty impressive that they've got reflection effects and self-shadowing still going on at 60FPS with eight different high-poly characters mulling about onscreen at the same time. And the CG, particularly of the last parade sequence, is absolutely KICKASS. You forget things like that.
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Post by Ink The Echidna on Dec 21, 2006 11:57:44 GMT -5
...Damnit, someone needs to just compile the entire God-damned Sonic storyline in a friggen' hardback novel with footnotes. This is killing my brain.
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Post by GagaMan on Dec 21, 2006 14:03:28 GMT -5
I miss when it was all just "Robotnik sticks animals in robots. Stop him."
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Post by Ink The Echidna on Dec 21, 2006 14:24:57 GMT -5
I miss when it was all just "Robotnik sticks animals in robots. Stop him." Amen.
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Post by Andrusi on Dec 21, 2006 14:49:37 GMT -5
I time-travelled for this?
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Post by Kulock on Dec 21, 2006 17:26:41 GMT -5
I think part of the trouble is they established these characters, then got a little bored with the characters and made some new, then got bored there... around SA they got the idea to support a "main" cast from there, and it's just grown and grown... So they've got to upkeep all these various characters. (I think it makes them paranoid about making any new ones as well, hence how new characters join the cast and how people see them and don't think anything about it, but you never actually see anyone other than humans, save for the now-dead Echidna tribes, and ONE advert texture in SA's Speed Highway.)
Frankly, though, more strong female characters = yes. Nice to have one without pink and/or hearts integrated into her style/outfit. Sucky that things are so confusing regarding her status right now. At least she's not as bad off as Metal Sonic, though.
Fang would've made an awesome cameo in this game, maybe even hidden boss. Would've fit with the rating and look, too.
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Post by Jolly Joes on Dec 21, 2006 22:15:29 GMT -5
*thoughts on an awful story* After reading that, I have an urge to beat the crap out of certain employees at Sega with a rusty pipe.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 22, 2006 3:47:52 GMT -5
Funny, I don't remember writing that.
And besides, I only listed the points important to the Blaze aspect and simplified the rest. And it's actually kind of a clever story, _AND_ gets around all the bitchfests about the princess and him by making it so Sonic never actually directly meets her in the end. The only things about it that really bothered me were the way Silver's episode ended, hence the above, and the blue Chaos Emerald being in some sort of weird time loop, because Silver gifts the one from the future to the Elise of the past, which is the one he got from her in a round-about way. But there's lots of the story that was nice and/or well-presented, and even if some of it was a little awkward because it was between cartoony Sonic and realistic-looking Elise, swap out Elise with another fuzzy and it would've been pretty cute. And as it was, it wasn't that bad.
But come on, do you just hate anything that ever has any connection to the game at all? No single aspect could ever have some remote piece of quality to it, even if the whole package together is disappointing? You aren't even witnessing this stuff first-hand, you're getting it related through message board posts leaving huge bits of it out. (And as I mentioned above, I even got some stuff wrong initially since it'd just been a while.)
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 22, 2006 4:38:42 GMT -5
Well, see, Ku. Perhaps it's the butterfly effect - the concept that changing one thing in past - even something as small as a butterfly flapping it's wings - will have major ramifications on the future.
If Elise blew out the flame of hope, not only would Sonic and Elise never meet, the Duke never would've died, and from there the changes only get more and more far-reaching and altering. It's very possible that, in blowing out the flame of hope, Silver and Blaze never end up meeting, because Iblis isn't around for them to unite against.
Thus, Silver, Blaze, and Eggman-Nega are all from the same "time period", but the altercations done by snuffing the flames of hope mean Silver and Blaze never meet, and Blaze and Eggman-Nega do the same stuff they do in Sonic Rush.
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Post by Jolly Joes on Dec 22, 2006 7:57:00 GMT -5
Funny, I don't remember writing that. And besides, I only listed the points important to the Blaze aspect and simplified the rest. And it's actually kind of a clever story, For such a clever story, it, Sonic Rivals, and Sonic Rush seems to contridict each other. But then I just said to my self, "screw it! Sonic stories doesn't need to be this convulted. It's best to try to stop paying attention to the storyline(as best as I can) and even to connect it to other games anymore." In other words, I'm in the Ink and Gaga camp. I think I said many times here that I like the soundtrack.
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Post by Ink The Echidna on Dec 22, 2006 9:33:48 GMT -5
I like the soundtrack too.
But the story is still murder.
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 22, 2006 14:17:45 GMT -5
Funny, I don't remember writing that. And besides, I only listed the points important to the Blaze aspect and simplified the rest. And it's actually kind of a clever story, For such a clever story, it, Sonic Rivals, and Sonic Rush seems to contridict each other. But then I just said to my self, "screw it! Sonic stories doesn't need to be this convulted. It's best to try to stop paying attention to the storyline(as best as I can) and even to connect it to other games anymore." In other words, I'm in the Ink and Gaga camp. But that's based on what Sonic used to be over 10 years ago. There's no way in hell you can tell me that any game today could fly on such a flimsy premise. Even Mario games are getting overarching storylines to them - hell, even New Super Mario Brothers was supposed to get one until Miyamoto axed it. Sonic has changed. Games have changed. STANDARDS have changed. You're never, ever, ever going to get another simple "EGGMAN IS TURNING FUZZY ANIMALS INTO EVIL ROBOTS! GO STOP HIM!" Sonic game ever again, most likely, unless you make it yourself.
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Post by GagaMan on Dec 22, 2006 15:23:41 GMT -5
The Advance games didn't have much of a plot to speak of, and they got away with it.
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Post by Kulock on Dec 22, 2006 15:46:33 GMT -5
...What about Sonic Advance 3? It was more of a manual thing, but supposedly Eggman used a device to break apart the world into various divided areas, hence the opening movie and funky "Cleared Zone" sequences. Edit: And let's not forget this infamous bullshot from early promotion of Sonic Advance 2: "I am announcing something to you all!"
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Post by Jolly Joes on Dec 22, 2006 16:54:06 GMT -5
But that's based on what Sonic used to be over 10 years ago. There's no way in hell you can tell me that any game today could fly on such a flimsy premise. Even Mario games are getting overarching storylines to them - hell, even New Super Mario Brothers was supposed to get one until Miyamoto axed it. You go, Shiggy!* Also another example of a simple story in today's games, the extent of the first Katamari game was...the King ruined the universe in a drunken stupor, it's up to you as his son to roll up objects to turn them into stars. "I am announcing something to you all!" "I'm Amy's replacement as the token cute girl in the game. As you can see, they haven't finished editing out her icon yet." spoiler* I really don't usually call Mr. Miyamoto "Shiggy" or "Shig-sama", or any other nickname the Nintarded usually gives him, or do I endorse it. I just use it this one time because it really does sound awfully funny--in a stupid kinda way.
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Post by BlazeHedgehod on Dec 22, 2006 19:57:54 GMT -5
The Advance games didn't have much of a plot to speak of, and they got away with it. Barely, and if only because they were Gameboy Advance games. And even so, the Sonic Advance games had increasingly more plot. SA1 barely had any, SA2 had cutscenes to book-end certain boss encounters, and SA3 actually hooked into Sonic Battle's continuity pretty tightly. And then you get Sonic Rush, the most plot-heavy 2D Sonic (discounting Sonic Rivals, which I have not played).
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