The GameFAQs Sonic 2k6 boards are...

[A Notebook]

...well, they're simply indescribable.

I don't even know what or who to believe anymore. The people who don't like the game are--I'm not even sure what the hell they're on about anymore. The people who like the game seem like blind fanboys. I don't even know what the hell is going on anymore.

If said boards are a good representation of the Sonic fandom, then there's no point in trying to make a Sonic game. Even getting Miyamoto to help out won't do anything. It's the end of the blue hedgehog. Game over for Sonic, game over for Sega, game over for everything.

[Artemus]

Mourn the loss.

Then come over and join us in our anticipation of Mario Galaxy.

[Magi: Model 2007]

Yay Mario Galaxy??

(hopefully!)

[Jolly Joes]

If said boards are a good representation of the Sonic fandom, then there's no point in trying to make a Sonic game. Even getting Miyamoto to help out won't do anything. It's the end of the blue hedgehog. Game over for Sonic, game over for Sega, game over for everything.

Nah. What you seeing Notebook is the exact audience Sonic Team is catering to for their new Sonic games.

That said, Viva Mario Mario!

[Kulock]

The people who won't shut up about the game are obsessed one way or the other. Some refuse to believe the game is anything but perfect (and part of this may be because of the glimmers of awesome that are there, and that when you learn the areas to watch the hell out for, the game is playable OK enough), and some just WILL NOT SHUT UP about "ZOMG SEE I TOLD YOU IT'D BE SONIC AND HIS SHITTY FRIENDS AND I WAS RIGHT LOL BEASTIALITY!!" Oh, good for you, not only did you parrot a Penny Arcade strip from over FIVE YEARS AGO, but you weren't even the one to come up with it, you just read it in some anger wank thread (I swear some GAF threads are newly posted JUST to make an excuse to invite recycled hatred of some games) and ripped it from there.

It gets even more irritating when you realize that a great deal of the people bitching are just bitching because they've seen a few pictures, or a YouTube video, sometimes even not that much. Sometimes they're so friggin' far off and just making up things to bitch about, and then they get the "YEAH, I HATE THAT" replies, compounding the idiocy.


I can make no excuses for Sonic 2k6. The game _needed_ several more months of work, not as an ideal, but just to be properly completed. They also just made some design decisions that were contrary to what an overwhelming demand was at the moment (_forcing_ Amigo play was moronic, further agitated by how poorly some of the Amigos defend themselves, like Tails and Amy). But I also find that some of the bitching is beyond inane ("Wah wah they're trying to be Final Fantasy", what, with neat fantasy designs, a plot, and high production values? Damn it, I want MORE games to go for that, I don't want Sonic Heroes and Super Mario Sunshine again!), and some people just will not stop bitching and bitching about a game they never set down one dollar for. They may not have even taken the time to download the free TGS demo. They just bitch about the state of Sonic games today, and how they want it to return to the old days of speed thrills, running through loops, on checkered platforms, the same tired "ideals" spouted over and over by people who ignore it every time the developers do try to include those elements, because it doesn't look like Green Hill.

[Jolly Joes]

. But I also find that some of the bitching is beyond inane ("Wah wah they're trying to be Final Fantasy", what, with neat fantasy designs, a plot, and high production values? Damn it, I want MORE games to go for that, I don't want Sonic Heroes and Super Mario Sunshine again!),

Well there seems to be a lot more people who disagree with your statement concerning Sonic and Mario.

A franchise about a talking blue cartoon hedgehog that runs fast isn't in dire need of a overdramatic plot that attempts to be FF-lite/Xeno-lite.

Besides, there are people who find the plot to Sonic 2K6 to be awful in general anyway.

A good plot for Sonic doesn't need to rip-off from the latest Squarenix spiel or the other latest generic JRPG of the month. Nor being simplistic means it will lack a good experience. I mean Shadow of the Colossus and ICO was pretty simplistic in terms of plot, but it delivered a better sense of atmosphere than many, many games.

S3&K seemed to have a decent transition of simple storytelling also. Sonic and Tails land on Angel Island, gets owned by Knuckles launching traps that sent you to the next level, Sonic finally confront Knuckles face to face and fight, Knuckles finds out he was tricked by Eggman and helps you, Sonic faces a final showdown with Eggman assuming you get all 7 chaos emeralds, and you get the good ending.

And all this was done without the use of dialogue.

As far as fantasy designs go, yep Sonic can do that as seen in Sonic Heroes, SA1 Twinkle Park, SA2 Pumpkin Hill for example. Also there should not be a clashing of art-direction like Sonic 2K6 suffers. I mean if they are going to put humans in the game, at least make them as close to cartoony as Sonic like Uekawa's drawing of the "Sonic" boy or Billy Hatcher not like generic realistic humans.

I mean you complain about GAF threads about this game, but that nothing compared to the complaints at something awful.

And that's only the second thread.

Also no matter how much you complain about the folks who bitch about the state of Sonic, you have to admit that this franchise in terms of the console games is going downhill. The fact that they release an uncompleted game that is so full of bugs and crap that it makes it unfun to play doesn't really give me an assurance that Sega honestly care for this franchise--except when it brings in the monies from the 6-12 crowd lol.

Maybe the console games need a real reboot(like the latest Tomb Raider game) from a more competitent developer team. This is assuming that Sonic Wii will also fail.

[Jet the Hawk]

The thread on SA rules

[NeroKid]

so I wonder what Archie Comic's adaptation of it will be.

Alright, now Gamefaqs.
GAMEFAQS.
A website for FAQS about games.
You know, those things dignified people write?
Nobody dignified actually uses them, because that's lame. It's giving up, it's conceding that you don't know what you're doing.
So these people who inhabit the forum
at a website for people who aren't-quite-gamers
And then people are "HOLY SHIT THIS IS A HUEG SURPRISE" when they find out they're reacting dumbly to the latest game.






Also Kulock's post was awesome and great. Seriously. That's a grade-A counter-cultural burn.

[Ink The Echidna]

God, how I miss the simplicity of the Genesis games.

No, I haven't played a demo for it. After all this nonsense, I really don't want to.

[Jolly Joes]

metalsonic said:

The thread on SA rules

I never said it was unenjoyable.

[GagaMan]

I'm with the crowd who after hearing everything about doesn't even want to play it, and no, I don't think Sonic games need big fancy FF like plots either. Just have Eggman making funny looking badniks again by trapping little animals in 'em, and Sonic going through a bunch of levels to kick his arse. That's ALL I need from a Sonic game.

Because you know, if they tried to over complicate the story of a Mario game beyond the usual Bowser kidnaps Peach story, there would be an outcry. Nintendo know how to keep things simple and with what franchises to do so. If Sega did a Sonic game like New Super Mario Bros, I would be very, very happy.

But Sega are shit nowadays, so I can't see it happening. Not when they can't even port the original game to the GBA right.

[Kulock]

Because you know, if they tried to over complicate the story of a Mario game beyond the usual Bowser kidnaps Peach story, there would be an outcry.

Actually, again, Super Mario Sunshine.

I was citing that and Heroes as more of a production values/ugly designs thing. (But Heroes did get really daft about starting plotlines, then totally forgetting about them. A fair chunk of Shadow was devoted to actually employing and resolving some of the things Heroes left dangling, although Metal Sonic's been a big question mark since Omega picked up him.)

[Sz]

The fact that the entire first post of the thread on SA is true is enough evidence that not only will I not buy this game, but that if possible I will actively avoid playing this game.

(although, Ku's and Blaze's reviews were enlightening enough to begin with.)

[Piers]

3D sonic games just rely too much on plot to make a good game

[BlazeHedgehod]

I'm with the crowd who after hearing everything about doesn't even want to play it, and no, I don't think Sonic games need big fancy FF like plots either. Just have Eggman making funny looking badniks again by trapping little animals in 'em, and Sonic going through a bunch of levels to kick his arse. That's ALL I need from a Sonic game.

Yeah, and that'd take, what? All of two games before it got old? I've already heard my fair share of "Why does it always have to be about the Chaos Emeralds?" complaints. Imagine something even more drastically simplified! What's the use of all this new next-gen ability if you're going to squander it on something that simplistic?

And while Nintendo does generally keep it simple for Mario platformers, you forget Mario's had five text-heavy RPGs. Even Nintendo realizes that every now and again, plot is important. It gives motivation. It's fun.

From day one I've said I enjoyed Sonic 2k6's plot and I'm serious about it. Yeah, there are some cheesy parts - really cheesy parts - but generally it's very well told, and surprisingly well acted. There are fewer "cringe-worthy" lines in this game than any Sonic game before it. (The only ones being a few moments between Sonic and Elise)

Ku's right in this regard. Biggest complaint about Sonic Adventure 2 back in the day was it was more sci-fi than fantasy. This manifested itself in Shadow the Hedgehog, too. So what happens when Sonicteam gives people the fantasy elements they're demanding?

"Sonic's ripping off Final Fantasy! Boo hiss!"

I swear the Sonic community is a ticking time bomb. Nobody is pleased with anything they do. Both the franchise and the community are going to go up in one hiroshima-like flamewar explosion and Sonic, and it's community, will be gone forever.

[Sz]

piers said:

3D sonic games just rely too much on plot to make a good game

Disagree, 1st one.


(this is what I hate about the diminishing quality of the 3D Sonic games, though. SA1 was a good game. ;.; ... if only they'd spent more than 3 hours bug testing ...)

[Jolly Joes]

blazehedgehog said:

Yeah, and that'd take, what? All of two games before it got old? I've already heard my fair share of "Why does it always have to be about the Chaos Emeralds?" complaints. Imagine something even more drastically simplified! What's the use of all this new next-gen ability if you're going to squander it on something that simplistic?

What does a game being on a next-gen machine have to do with the complexity of the plot?

Plot of Mario Galaxy: Peach gets kidnapped by Bowser, travels from planet to planet, Mario travels from planet to planet to rescue her. Mario saves her at the end.

That's it.

However, traveling from planet to planet, the adventure that will most likely carries the game to larger-that-life poportions. Not the story.

And assuming that Team ICO makes a PS3 game and it follows the same philosophy as ICO and SotC, the written plot will be simple, but the action itself throughout the game will be epic.

And while Nintendo does generally keep it simple for Mario platformers, you forget Mario's had five text-heavy RPGs. Even Nintendo realizes that every now and again, plot is important. It gives motivation. It's fun.

Mario RPG plots are usually light-hearted and full of humorous bits. They do not try to get too "deep" or serious, or emo, or whatever.

From day one I've said I enjoyed Sonic 2k6's plot and I'm serious about it. Yeah, there are some cheesy parts - really cheesy parts - but generally it's very well told, and surprisingly well acted. There are fewer "cringe-worthy" lines in this game than any Sonic game before it. (The only ones being a few moments between Sonic and Elise)

The only thing I can agree with you is that their are cheesy parts in the story. Everything else was sort of meh...like your average Tales of...plot(minus the racism). In fact, I read a post at another MB that this game actually does rip-off the plot of Tales of Destiny 2(JP).

And the ending was BS mostly because that it felt like this lame story was a waste of time.

Ku's right in this regard. Biggest complaint about Sonic Adventure 2 back in the day was it was more sci-fi than fantasy. This manifested itself in Shadow the Hedgehog, too. So what happens when Sonicteam gives people the fantasy elements they're demanding?

"Sonic's ripping off Final Fantasy! Boo hiss!"

I think it is because it seems to be executed poorly or being too serious given the franchise. I mean seeing that even people outside of the Sonic community thought that this story was BS--maybe, just maybe, it is an indication that Sonic may not be the right series for complex plots that features characters entering "Heaven" and killing "God" and "Satan"?

I mean there was many different ways to tackle a fantasy plot and have it fit with the context of the franchise without making it ridiculous from an outsider's perspective. I mean, why not use the classic "Man/Machine vs. Nature" which is a theme some people intereperated since the first Sonic game. Eggman could even be the final boss again.

Hell, Sonic could even be "inspired" by Miyazaki--more than it was in the past. No one complains when your game take cues from Miyazaki--just look at the Twilight Princess lovefest.

And it is even more perfect seeing that talking animals dominate the main cast.

I swear the Sonic community is a ticking time bomb. Nobody is pleased with anything they do. Both the franchise and the community are going to go up in one hiroshima-like flamewar explosion and Sonic, and it's community, will be gone forever.

You say that this is a bad thing.

[BlazeHedgehod]

What does a game being on a next-gen machine have to do with the complexity of the plot?

Plot of Mario Galaxy: Peach gets kidnapped by Bowser, travels from planet to planet, Mario travels from planet to planet to rescue her. Mario saves her at the end.

That's it.

However, traveling from planet to planet, the adventure that will most likely carries the game to larger-that-life poportions. Not the story.

And assuming that Team ICO makes a PS3 game and it follows the same philosophy as ICO and SotC, the written plot will be simple, but the action itself throughout the game will be epic.

It was said before in an interview with a Sonicteam member - there's pressure to create a richer environment and a richer back story with each new generation of hardware. With each generation you are given the ability to tell deeper, richer stories because technology limitations break away. While I agree that too much plot can get in the way, Sonic 2k6's cutscenes don't even begin to approach the length you'd see in Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, or Xenosaga. The majority of the time they seem to be under two minutes (with a few minor exceptions).

I think it is because it seems to be executed poorly or being too serious given the franchise. I mean seeing that even people outside of the Sonic community thought that this story was BS--maybe, just maybe, it is an indication that Sonic may not be the right series for complex plots that features characters entering "Heaven" and killing "God" and "Satan"?

I mean there was many different ways to tackle a fantasy plot and have it fit with the context of the franchise without making it ridiculous from an outsider's perspective. I mean, why not use the classic "Man/Machine vs. Nature" which is a theme some people intereperated since the first Sonic game. Eggman could even be the final boss again.

Hell, Sonic could even be "inspired" by Miyazaki--more than it was in the past. No one complains when your game take cues from Miyazaki--just look at the Twilight Princess lovefest.

This game wasn't any more serious than the original Sonic Adventure or Sonic Adventure 2 - that is, until The Last Episode. I mean, c'mon. The Princess was saved and then captured again how many times? Six? Seven? You think that's serious? I found it rather amusing. Excluding the events that happened in The Last Episode, Sonic 2k6 was no more mature or darker than watching the Knuckles Tribe desecrate the Master Emerald Shrine in Sonic Adventure.

Yeah, there was a bit of religious symbolism in this game - but it was so vague it might as well not even really count at all. And technically, there was a bit of man versus nature in this. Outside of the obvious bits you see during gameplay (Sonic riding eagles and whales and whatever while Eggman's robots shoot missles at him, etc.), well... I just wish we had spoiler tags. Copy and paste URL: spoiler.

Even so, most of this - considering the popularity of games like Final Fantasy - is probably what one should start considering a modern-day "traditional fantasy storyline"; at least as far as the japanese are concerned. There's a 10 year legacy of storylines like this.

You say that this is a bad thing.

Hey, screw you. The Sonic Community has been my primary community for almost 10 years. I'd rather not see it destory itself.

[Jolly Joes]

It was said before in an interview with a Sonicteam member - there's pressure to create a richer environment and a richer back story with each new generation of hardware. With each generation you are given the ability to tell deeper, richer stories because technology limitations break away. While I agree that too much plot can get in the way, Sonic 2k6's cutscenes don't even begin to approach the length you'd see in Final Fantasy, Metal Gear Solid, or Xenosaga. The majority of the time they seem to be under two minutes (with a few minor exceptions).

What the heck is wrong with Sonic Team? If they want to use a richer story so dang badly in one of their franchises they are in charage of, then how about using it in a new Phantasy Star? And I'm not talking about that Online/Universe stuff, I mean a real Phantasy Star in the same vein as PSI-IV.

You know that series would actually benefit more than Sonic and no one would think of it as stupid.

This game wasn't any more serious than the original Sonic Adventure or Sonic Adventure 2 - that is, until The Last Episode. I mean, c'mon. The Princess was saved and then captured again how many times? Six? Seven? You think that's serious? I found it rather amusing. Excluding the events that happened in The Last Episode, Sonic 2k6 was no more mature or darker than watching the Knuckles Tribe desecrate the Master Emerald Shrine in Sonic Adventure.

Yeah, there was a bit of religious symbolism in this game - but it was so vague it might as well not even really count at all. And technically, there was a bit of man versus nature in this. Outside of the obvious bits you see during gameplay (Sonic riding eagles and whales and whatever while Eggman's robots shoot missles at him, etc.), well... I just wish we had spoiler tags. Copy and paste URL: spoiler.

Even so, most of this - considering the popularity of games like Final Fantasy - is probably what one should start considering a modern-day "traditional fantasy storyline"; at least as far as the japanese are concerned. There's a 10 year legacy of storylines like this.

For the record, I didn't care for the plot to SA2 either. Although, I have to admit I thought SA1 plot was ok at the time since it felt like an extention on what happened to Knuckles people since S3&K, and this was Sonic's first real entry in 3D so I was able to forgive ST on some issues I had with the game, and possibly I was younger and I had a larger tolerance to average stories in games/anime, or I was able to over look it because it was a platformer. It was nice that they gave some character development for Tails and Amy, though they dropped the ball ever since lol.

Gamma's tale was the best though. Probably the only really good story in any Sonic game I've played.

Though seeing as I said I like SA1 tale at the time and I haven't played SA1 in years, the above statements could be tinted with rose-colored glasses of nostalgia.

Maybe I need to replay SA1 again to point out why I liked it back in the day...or find out the sad realization that it didn't really age gracefully.

And I'm not so sure if naming the villian after an alternate name of the devil counts as vague religious symbolism--and why was Shadow...
(ugh, I wish this board had spoiler tags also as it would make my job easier)
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
S
P
O
I
L
E
R
....crucified in the future? I mean, the first time I saw that scene I thought, WTF?!? is he actually...crucified?

So Sonic needs to emulate and to look towards FF how to do a modern day fantasy story? Ugh...

I've been thinking for a while on how a simplicistic yet, epic Sonic plot that involves human vs nature would work without being dismissed as totally idiotic from everyone who were turned off from the Sonic series since SA1. Though it would probably be too much of a bold move--and I mean a bold move as Sonic 2K6 would look "safe" in comparision.

Hey, screw you. The Sonic Community has been my primary community for almost 10 years. I'd rather not see it destory itself.

Well from between the OMFG!?!? SHADOW IZ HOTIWANNADOHIM!!, the OMG Y DO REVIEWERZ H8T ON SONIC!!?!?! T____T, the OMG SONAMYTAILSSHADKNUXME 4EVAR, and the OMG!! THEY ARE NOT TRU SONIC FANS IF THE H8T THIS GAME!!! I think the Sonic Community has already been damaged.

Seeing if you want to stay in the community, I hope you are ready to accept our new idiot 14 year-old fanbrat overlords! This is who the new Sonic games are sadly mainly attracting. :-(

[Kulock]

Especially when that road might be able to.

sz said:

(this is what I hate about the diminishing quality of the 3D Sonic games, though. SA1 was a good game. ;.; ... if only they'd spent more than 3 hours bug testing ...)

You should've SEEN the very first version of SA. You can't even get it anymore. (Not easily, anyway.) Even before the "International" version (which is what the US and Europe saw, after nearly... what, 3/4ths of a YEAR of extra bugtesting and additions?), they quietly swapped in a touched-up version, but I had the express pleasure of playing the original rev.

Actually, it wasn't too terrible, but there were subtle things, and some gaping huge glitches. Like the spindash on Knuckles digging mounds thing, that wasn't something that could "potentially" happen, or happen with some jostling. The minute you started the move, Sonic plunked right in, it wasn't designed for that movement state. Fun stuff like that. Not nearly as often as what I've run into in 2k6, but reminiscant.

I used to have shots where someone used the exit command out of the NiGHTS pinball machine, resulting in Casinopolis being covered in the NiGHTS minigame textures. Shame I lost those.