MTS: Dad's PC getting XP BSOD

[TonicBH]

Okay, my dad's getting the XP BSOD with "IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL" and I've been trying virtually everything to make it go away with no success.

I need help. Restoring the machine, or reinstalling XP is not an option. and for some fucking reason I cannot access the BIOS despite I hammer the setup keys 100 times.

[Eric]

Added or reconfigured any hardware lately?

[TonicBH]

Well, he took out my DVD-R drive and put it into his. He later took out a broken CD/DVD drive that refused to open, plus an unneeded 56K modem.

I wouldn't be surprised if he botched something up when he put in the DVD-R drive.

[Jet the Hawk]

Heres Microsofts page about it tinyurl.com/yvpfa
It sounds like it could be anything, has he updated any of his drivers lately? Have you tried disconnecting the Hard drive to get into BIOS? Do you any kind of boot disc?

[Robert]

The BIOS most likely won't be helpful here unless some onboard device previous disabled was enabled.

XP does have an anti-piracy thing that creates a serial number based on the hardware of the machine it was installed to, where if too much hardware changes it will force the system into a BSOD on startup. But I think the error is different. In case I'm wrong, though, you should try replacing some of the hardware removed. (Unless it successfully booted without all those devices already, in which case it is most definitely not that.)


IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL is a very general message that pretty much always originates from hardware. I've gotten it from USB devices that don't startup properly to more general things like bad harddrives, failed memory, overheating processors. In general, if it's happening at every bootup, there may not be much choice. But, have you at least tried getting into safe mode with XP?

If you can (hit F8 at startup, select Safe Mode, and boot), try disabling a lot of hardware and see if you can't get it to start. (Be sensible; disable capture devices, audio devices, etc. but try not to touch the IDE controller and pretty much nothing inside the System Devices category.) If that works, work your way backwards, reenabling devices until the system trips.

Also, was a driver filename by chance included with the IRQL_NOT_LESS_OR_EQUAL message? Sometimes you get something like "atapi.vxd" or some such behind it which can further help determine what invoked the error.

tonicbh said:

Restoring the machine, or reinstalling XP is not an option.

This line, however, is bullshit. People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly. The fact is, Windows is a huge, intricate network powered by a complex database. And, quite simply, sometimes it just plain breaks and there's pretty much nothing that can be done.

[TonicBH]

68hc11 said:

tonicbh said:

Restoring the machine, or reinstalling XP is not an option.

This line, however, is bullshit. People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly. The fact is, Windows is a huge, intricate network powered by a complex database. And, quite simply, sometimes it just plain breaks and there's pretty much nothing that can be done.

If I had a legal copy of the Windows XP CD, I would try that. The computers we have came with ZERO system CDs. If we had system CDs, we would've tried them already.

And the IRQL error tends to happen at random intervals. my dad says that "using the internet" for at least ten minutes causes it, which cannot be true, because it happened when I installed Firefox, MPC and WinRAR on his machine. At least I got him off the troublesome and crash-prone IE.

As I said, he was the one who put in the DVD-R drive from my machine, so most likely he botched up something when he installed it.

[Neo]

68hc11 said:

This line, however, is bullshit. People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly.

This line, however, is also bullshit, laced with a side of arrogance. Most stock factory PCs don't even COME with XP system disks, they come with a disk that restores the OS from a pre-fabbed partition on the harddrive. It's not as simple as "LOL REINSTALL XP USING TEH DISKS TO SOLV UR PROBLEMS, WHAT YOU CAN'T?? THEN YOU'RE A STUPID!"

[Sz]

neo said:

68hc11 said:

This line, however, is bullshit. People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly. The fact is, Windows is a huge, intricate network powered by a complex database. And, quite simply, sometimes it just plain breaks and there's pretty much nothing that can be done.

This line, however, is also bullshit, laced with a side of arrogance. Most stock factory PCs don't even COME with XP system disks, they come with a disk that restores the OS from a pre-fabbed partition on the harddrive. It's not as simple as "LOL REINSTALL XP USING TEH DISKS TO SOLV UR PROBLEMS, WHAT YOU CAN'T?? THEN YOU'RE A STUPID!"

Are you delusional?

[Neo]

People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly.

Was referring specifically to this line, FYI.

[Andrusi]

Because it's unreasonable to expect people to know whether they have a system CD or to back up their files regularly, you see.

[Sz]

neo said:

People need to start keeping stock of their system CDs and always should backup their files regularly.

Was referring specifically to this line, FYI.

Question still stands!

[Squiggles the Chao]

I'm going to have to side with Rob on this one.

The situation that Neo describes (systems coming without Windows XP discs) is unfortunately all too common. However, it's also a screwjob. Sure, some people may not think that having a Windows XP disc is immediately useful, but in situations like this, it can be. No matter what Blaze (I'm not specifically picking on Blaze, I've just had this conversation with him before) or anyone else says, there are times when Operating Systems break to the point where you'd have to be a super-genious Windows engineer with unlimited time on your hands to fix the problem. Thus, the easiest and quickest way to restore your system is with an OS install disc.

One such example is a corrupted registry. If your software hive (part of the registry) becomes corrupt, Windows will not boot. In some cases, you can build a boot disc (not an installation disc, but one that boots up to a minimal OS) and replace the registry with a backup. However, this doesn't always work, and when it does, many registry values are missing, causing many programs who expect them to be there (e.g. programs which were installed after the last registry backup) to crash. But let's assume for a moment that you restore the only backup of the registry you have, and Windows still won't boot. You then have the following options: you can either load up a boot disc with some sort of registry editor (or if the registry is so corrupt that just won't parse, a hex editor) and spend hours upon hours looking for the offending entry (or entries). Or you can reinstall Windows and all your applications.

Obviously, you should opt for the second choice. Even if you were to know the mechanics of the registry perfectly, have you any idea how big the registry gets on a normal system? In the worst case, it would take at least a few days (if it's repairable at all) to fix the problem by hand. The registry contains millions upon millions of bytes, and if automated tools can't correct it, it's nearly impossible to do yourself.

In contrast, reinstalling Windows and all your applications takes 2-3 hours, tops. It starts you out with a fresh, clean system which is more stable than the one you had before. Some applications don't even need to be reinstalled. Only those that put files in the Windows directory or the registry.

I think I took Neo's comment a but too seriously because I deal with it all the time at work. People want to buy $400 (or whatever) PCs from a company like Dell, and expect it to run perfectly and never break. What they don't realize is that what they're paying for is hardware comprised of generic bulk and after-market parts (i.e. parts that don't pass the quality standards of the manufacturer, and thus were sold to Dell et. al. at a discount) filled to the brim with free trials of AOL, trial programs that you don't want, and even adware and spyware sometimes. This is why the machines are so cheap: the parts cost less, the manufacturer gets paid for installing crapware, and not bundling a copy of Windows XP with every machine saves them something along the lines of $50 per machine.

Like I said, this is a screwjob. It doesn't matter what OS you're running, you need the installation disc. Whether you're using Windows, Linux, OS X, BSD, OS/2, Solaris or any other OS, you need the installation disc. Getting back to the topic of my work, I get people who come in with these budget (and sometimes not so budget) machines with no OS disc and something along the lines of a corrupted registry. They expect me to magic up a solution to their problem. But like I stated before, doing so would cost hundreds of hours and a familiarity with the registry that I don't and hope never to have, and they get really pissed at me when I tell them they need to shell out an extra $200 (MSRP) for XP Home, which they will have to find elsewhere because we don't sell it. I'm not the one who created the problem, the manufacturers are, but I still get yelled at and abused by customers for it. And yes, I've had a few tell me that it's "bullshit" that they need a full copy of Windows if they don't want to lose all their data by reinstalling with the restore disc provided by the manufacturer.

So I'm saying, once and for all, not having the CD is bullshit. It's not your fault you don't have it, but to not expect to need it is naive, and to give tech support personnel shit about it is even worse. Don't blame us when we tell you to reinstall your OS and you don't have the disc, blame whoever sold you a computer without a full copy of the OS.

[Sz]

To clarify: Squiggs said it much better than I ever could.

Additionally, Neo, your initial post was downright asstacular, what with the accusing of a guy who I've never seen exhibit anything close to cruel or even mean behavior on the internet in, oh, I guess 5 years now ... of doing just that! It's almost like accusing Ghandi of trying to shoot somebody. ;P

[Neo]

sz said:

To clarify: Squiggs said it much better than I ever could.

Additionally, Neo, your initial post was downright asstacular, what with the accusing of a guy who I've never seen exhibit anything close to cruel or even mean behavior on the internet in, oh, I guess 5 years now ... of doing just that! It's almost like accusing Ghandi of trying to shoot somebody. ;P

Well, the way I've seen people go on about "YOU NEED TO HAVE THE DISK" when I've been in a lot of situations where people just plain didn't GET one, and seeing damn near insulting them for it, I'm sorry if it ticked me offa bit. It came off to me as a very, well, nasty remark. If it wasn't intended that way, I'm sorry, but insulting someone because all they said was 'reinstalling XP is not an option' and assuming one of many things about that person "THEY'RE DUMB IF THEY THINK WINDOWS DOESN'T NEED TO BE REINSTALLED/THEY'RE DUMB IF THEY LOST THE DISK" came off to me as arrogant, and the "everybody should have a disk" as slightly bullshit. :E

Hence, a full explanation of my angry post.

[Squiggles the Chao]

neo said:

Well, the way I've seen people go on about "YOU NEED TO HAVE THE DISK" when I've been in a lot of situations where people just plain didn't GET one

In case I didn't make this clear: You need to get the disc. If you don't have one, you need to spend $200 (or more, depending on your version) to get one if you have a problem that requires the disc to fix.

neo said:

and seeing damn near insulting them for it, I'm sorry if it ticked me offa bit. It came off to me as a very, well, nasty remark. If it wasn't intended that way, I'm sorry, but insulting someone because all they said was 'reinstalling XP is not an option' and assuming one of many things about that person "THEY'RE DUMB IF THEY THINK WINDOWS DOESN'T NEED TO BE REINSTALLED/THEY'RE DUMB IF THEY LOST THE DISK" came off to me as arrogant, and the "everybody should have a disk" as slightly bullshit. :E

Well, I can see that. At the same time, I don't really equate someone calling a certain statement "bullshit" as a personal attack against the person who said it. I mean, you can attack an argument without attacking a person.

The only real arrogance I see in the topic is the original statement claiming that reinstalling Windows XP is not an option. To me, it says, "I only want your help if you do it my way." Perhaps that's just something I have to deal with too much at work. But when people tell me that reinstalling Windows is not an option in these situations, then I typically reply, "then your only other option is to live with a broken computer." Just quite simply, sometimes it's the only way to fix a problem, as I've shown above.

I guess a lot of it is how I'm treated. When I suggest that a certain plan of action is the only/least painful way to fix a computer, and it doesn't agree with something the user wants, they automatically assume I'm being lazy. As if I could fix the problem without reinstalling Windows, but I'm too lazy to do it. And they think that by saying, "it's not an option," "it's really important," or "this is unacceptable," will make me magically fix the problem for them. No matter how much I tell them otherwise, they think a magical fix is possible; they think they know more about the issue, and me, than they really do. I find that incredibly arrogant. The thing is, I don't charge for my services. They're not paying a dime to get their computer fixed, it's funded through various sources. And yet, I'm "stupid" or "lazy" when the customers place impossible restrictions on the problem.

I suppose that's a bit of a rant. Here's the point: no one here is calling anyone stupid for not being given a disc. What was challenged was the notion that all problems can be fixed without reinstalling the OS.

As a final plea, we really do try to help people. We're here to fix your bad situation. We're not the cause of it, and we're not trying to avoid helping you because we're lazy. If there's another way to fix a problem, you can be sure that we're going to inform you. There's no need to specify things you won't do at the start. It starts everything off negatively. We do everything we can to prevent you from having to reinstall your system. At the same time, if we say that something is the only way. Don't immediately assume we don't know what we're talking about, or that we're lazy. Often, it just happens that we understand aspects of the situation that you don't.